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mysidI happened to come across a HP fanfic this morning in which James and Peter find it completely obvious that Sirius and Remus fancy each other, but perhaps Sirius and Remus are being a bit slow figuring it out. It struck me just how often I read stories in which characters: friends, teachers, casual acquaintances spend a little bit of time with Remus and Sirius (or some other slash pairing of the same time period) and quickly deduce that they are gay. "It's so obvious," they say, or something to that effect.
But, no, it wouldn't have been obvious, and this is why. In the 60's and 70's, being in the closet was still the norm. Sodomy was still a criminal offense in the UK until 1972, and even then it was illegal with anyone under 21. (In the USA, it's still illegal in many states, and in many of them the legal definition of sodomy includes both oral sex and anal sex.) Being in the closet was a necessity.
And because most homosexuals were still closeted, those around them tended to be ignorant of how common it was. Homosexuality simply wasn't part of the social consciousness. If someone heard that two men lived together, she didn't assume they were a couple. She probably didn't even wonder if they were a couple. The most likely assumption to be made was that they lived together to share the rent. It's very likely they were a couple--but no one around them was really that likely to assume so.
Someone on my friends-list recently mused on the fact they we are the last generation who have had to adjust to the existence of the internet. Kids today don't know what it was like not to have Google, Wikipedia, and Mapquest at their fingertips.
Perhaps I am also part of the last generation to remember what it was like not to know that homosexuality existed. My kids are growing up very aware of it as a part of everyday life; their friend next door has two moms. The tv is full of shows with gay characters. But in my generation, it was still the shameful secret that no one dared discuss. I'm so glad things have changed, but for the sake of those of you younger than me, let me tell you about the slow eye-opening that an old fogey (age 39) like me went through.
Junior High-Two of my female cousins and I were discussing kissing. (None of us had kissed a boy yet.) Suddenly, one of them kissed me--open mouth, French kiss. I shoved her away and said, "Girls don't kiss girls. Girls only kiss boys." And I believed it whole-heartedly.
High School--I went to an all-girls school in the early 80's. In the middle of my junior year (age 16), our gym teacher (a woman) was suddenly fired. Rumors spread around the school that she and one of my classmates, Kitty, had become sexually involved. (In retrospect, I kind of doubt it. It's more likely that the girl facing some very confusing feelings had found a sympathetic ear in a kindred spirit. But the damage was done.) The teacher was fired, and Kitty was socially ostracized for a time. I still thought of being gay as something very, very rare. I had no reason not to.
I imagined that of the entire school (250 students) Kitty was the only one who was gay; now I know for a fact that she wasn't. My of my closest friends and I frequently used to double date. Every time Lori got a new boyfriend, she'd ask if he had a friend for me. Now Lori is happily living with another woman and their two children.
University--During my freshman year (age 18; 1984-855), a group of women on my hall befriended another freshman I'll call John. John was flamingly gay--but I didn't realize it. In retrospect, it was completely obvious—but only in retrospect. The fact that it didn’t occur to me at the time proves that homosexuality just wasn't a part of my world view. I knew it existed, but I couldn't imagine that I might know anyone who was gay.
By senior year (1987-88), I had wised up a bit. I remember having a heart-to heart talk with a classmate named David. His gushing about a friend of his left me convinced that David was head over heels in love with the friend—but in deep denial. My gentle hints that his admiration for his friend went beyond mere friendship fell on deaf ears. It was just as well; David's religious beliefs made homosexuality a no-no.
What happened in between the two years? A very gradual eye-opening. I remember having a conversation with my roommate and her sorority "Big Sister," Stephanie. Stephanie was on the women's rugby team, and somehow it came up in our conversation that there was a rumor that the entire team were lesbians. I thought that was perfectly ridiculous stereotyping, athletic girls=lesbians, (and I still do) and in pointing out how ridiculous it was, I said, "You're on the team, and you aren't gay." Stephanie looked uncomfortable, my roommate gave me the "Shut up immediately!" look, and someone changed the subject. Yes, I got the message: Stephanie was gay; however, Stephanie was so normal (yes, I was doing some stereotyping of my own) that I didn't really believe it for a long time.
Today--Now I look around and I see my neighbors, a f/f couple, openly raising a child together. I know that my cousin in NYC is openly in a long-term relationship with another woman. I know that her mother left my uncle because she fell in love with a woman, but I didn't know that until two decades after it happened. I turn on my tv, and I can chose between watching Will and Grace, Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, The L Word, etc. The world has definitely changed.
But, no, it wouldn't have been obvious, and this is why. In the 60's and 70's, being in the closet was still the norm. Sodomy was still a criminal offense in the UK until 1972, and even then it was illegal with anyone under 21. (In the USA, it's still illegal in many states, and in many of them the legal definition of sodomy includes both oral sex and anal sex.) Being in the closet was a necessity.
And because most homosexuals were still closeted, those around them tended to be ignorant of how common it was. Homosexuality simply wasn't part of the social consciousness. If someone heard that two men lived together, she didn't assume they were a couple. She probably didn't even wonder if they were a couple. The most likely assumption to be made was that they lived together to share the rent. It's very likely they were a couple--but no one around them was really that likely to assume so.
Someone on my friends-list recently mused on the fact they we are the last generation who have had to adjust to the existence of the internet. Kids today don't know what it was like not to have Google, Wikipedia, and Mapquest at their fingertips.
Perhaps I am also part of the last generation to remember what it was like not to know that homosexuality existed. My kids are growing up very aware of it as a part of everyday life; their friend next door has two moms. The tv is full of shows with gay characters. But in my generation, it was still the shameful secret that no one dared discuss. I'm so glad things have changed, but for the sake of those of you younger than me, let me tell you about the slow eye-opening that an old fogey (age 39) like me went through.
Junior High-Two of my female cousins and I were discussing kissing. (None of us had kissed a boy yet.) Suddenly, one of them kissed me--open mouth, French kiss. I shoved her away and said, "Girls don't kiss girls. Girls only kiss boys." And I believed it whole-heartedly.
High School--I went to an all-girls school in the early 80's. In the middle of my junior year (age 16), our gym teacher (a woman) was suddenly fired. Rumors spread around the school that she and one of my classmates, Kitty, had become sexually involved. (In retrospect, I kind of doubt it. It's more likely that the girl facing some very confusing feelings had found a sympathetic ear in a kindred spirit. But the damage was done.) The teacher was fired, and Kitty was socially ostracized for a time. I still thought of being gay as something very, very rare. I had no reason not to.
I imagined that of the entire school (250 students) Kitty was the only one who was gay; now I know for a fact that she wasn't. My of my closest friends and I frequently used to double date. Every time Lori got a new boyfriend, she'd ask if he had a friend for me. Now Lori is happily living with another woman and their two children.
University--During my freshman year (age 18; 1984-855), a group of women on my hall befriended another freshman I'll call John. John was flamingly gay--but I didn't realize it. In retrospect, it was completely obvious—but only in retrospect. The fact that it didn’t occur to me at the time proves that homosexuality just wasn't a part of my world view. I knew it existed, but I couldn't imagine that I might know anyone who was gay.
By senior year (1987-88), I had wised up a bit. I remember having a heart-to heart talk with a classmate named David. His gushing about a friend of his left me convinced that David was head over heels in love with the friend—but in deep denial. My gentle hints that his admiration for his friend went beyond mere friendship fell on deaf ears. It was just as well; David's religious beliefs made homosexuality a no-no.
What happened in between the two years? A very gradual eye-opening. I remember having a conversation with my roommate and her sorority "Big Sister," Stephanie. Stephanie was on the women's rugby team, and somehow it came up in our conversation that there was a rumor that the entire team were lesbians. I thought that was perfectly ridiculous stereotyping, athletic girls=lesbians, (and I still do) and in pointing out how ridiculous it was, I said, "You're on the team, and you aren't gay." Stephanie looked uncomfortable, my roommate gave me the "Shut up immediately!" look, and someone changed the subject. Yes, I got the message: Stephanie was gay; however, Stephanie was so normal (yes, I was doing some stereotyping of my own) that I didn't really believe it for a long time.
Today--Now I look around and I see my neighbors, a f/f couple, openly raising a child together. I know that my cousin in NYC is openly in a long-term relationship with another woman. I know that her mother left my uncle because she fell in love with a woman, but I didn't know that until two decades after it happened. I turn on my tv, and I can chose between watching Will and Grace, Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, The L Word, etc. The world has definitely changed.
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(no subject)
Date: 2006-06-14 01:38 am (UTC)I think most of us can point out that eye-opening moment in our own lives (When did you first realize that you or someone you knew was gay? When did you feel comfortable discussing it?) and for mainstream, white, middle-class American popular culture, at least, the same thing seems to be happening at a much large scale these days. Perhaps elsewhere, too? I think slash--fictional worlds in which same-sex relationships are the rule and not the exception--is actually part of that cultural change. It's funny to think about, sometimes, that we've watched cultural change so much in this regard. (Because 33 and 39 are *not* old!)
One of my own problems with "the gay issue" in slash fic is also the reaction and acceptance of friends and family. It has something to do with the fic I tend to read (HP Marauder generation, thus 70s and 80s) but also something to do with my own ideas about prejudice: I just don't think that we can isolate it and condemn it as easily as we do in fiction. Having a prejudice isn't something that you can and should get rid of like last season's fashions--it's about the way you see the world, about what you view as right and wrong and desirable and not desirable on the most basic levels. It's about who you view as having power and privilege in the world, and how you experience your own privilege, if you're part of the majority. You can be told that it's harmful and biased and wrong, but chances are that it's deeply rooted in the way you live your life, and it's not just the "prejudiced" who suffer from it, but the oppressed minority, too, who probably deal with it on a day-to-day basis.
I love the idea that James and Peter and Lily would find Remus and Sirius *obviously* gay and support their relationship, but I can't find it realistic, either in the WW of the 70s or 80s or in the Muggle world of today. Even the sudden burst of LGBT visibility we're seen recently doesn't mean acceptance.
Then again, maybe realism isn't the aim here, and we're working out the way we *want* to feel about these issues, not the way we actually experience them.
Sorry to ramble! Maggie
(no subject)
Date: 2006-06-14 01:53 am (UTC)There's an interesting article on the issue here: "Daily Effects of Straight Privilege". (http://www.cs.earlham.edu/~hyrax/personal/files/student_res/straightprivilege.htm) Doesn't deal with the historical issue at all--sorry, Mysid--but can help writers think about the ways being gay/straight manifests itself in daily life.
Sorry again for my long post! Maggie
(no subject)
Date: 2006-06-14 03:01 am (UTC)But I've read many stories (and now that I think about, they were probably on ff.net) which give me the impression that the writer really doesn't realize what attitudes or perceptions would have been in the 70's. Ah, youth. I'm glad they don't know any better--unless they are writing about it.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-06-14 04:06 am (UTC)